[BACK] [MENU]

It's not the first time that so-called 'supporting' cast members have become the focal point of a sitcom, but when American fans of Will And Grace started referring to the show as Jack And Karen, it became apparent that the balance in this four-way ensemble was perhaps not as equal as one might assume from its title. Indeed, when Attitude visited the set of the sitcom earlier this year, it was made immediately clear (by a slightly edgy NBC executive) that the two leads were not to be asked about the rise and rise of their co-stars.

As far as NBC are concerned, of course, Will, Grace, Jack and Karen are all equals. When the network decided to give the cast a little gift to show their appreciation for their hard work, all four of them were equally rewarded. With a fully kitted-out Porsche Boxster a-piece, no less. On the other hand, when it comes to award shows, the old "supporting" label is slapped onto Sean Hayes (Jack) and Megan Mullally (Karen), while Eric McCormack (Will) and Debra Messing (Grace) get to enjoy the full stretch-limo "Leading actor/actress" accolade. Unfair? Well yes, really, given that at the same award ceremonies, the foursome are regularly nominated as Best Comedy Ensemble, but then when you get to drive to and from work in over 50 grands' worth of network gratitude, it probably doesn't do to kick up too much of a fuss.

You can see how it came about, though. As the more effeminate, less 'invisible' gay man of the show, Jack is allowed free reign in the arena of campy bitchery, while Will is permitted just the occasional mince here and there. By the same token, Karen's chemi-dependent obliviousness allows for extremes of behaviour that Grace's neurotic goody-two-shoes can only dream of. Indeed the role of Karen is arguably as close to the spirit of AbFab's Eddy and Patsy as US network television will allow itself to get.

On the set of the show, you get a pretty clear idea of how everything comes together, the first lesson being that there is nothing remotely simple about making a sitcom. Each exchange is meticulously scrutinised, tested, re-written, re-re-written and - if necessary - dropped in an eight-hour read-through of a 30 minute episode. The attention to detail starts to become irritating, frankly, but then if you start to cut corners with this kind of material, well, you end up with My Family.

The episode we're watching sees Will at the centre of a tug-of-like between Jack and Karen. But while the two characters are vying with each other, as soon as a break is announced, Sean and Karen are giggling with each other like two brat kids who're about to be told to get out of the car and walk home. That, in essence, is what their success is all about. Not only are they both very funny, they do genuinely like each other. And there's no reahearsing that kind of chemistry…

Sean Hayes - Jack

Is your job always this much fun?

Yes, it really is - we're real lucky because we all like each other and all work well off each other.

Oh please - everyone says that in showbusiness…

[grins] I know, but it's really true in this case. There's no ego involved, and we're all open to each others' ideas.

You all seem to enjoy a fair bit of input with the script.

Yep. The writers are very open to ideas always. It's a very give and take affair. If you come up with a good enough storyline, they'll take it. If they don't like it, though, they'll tell you it's terrible.

Are you aware that you and Megan are becoming as popular, if not more so, than the show's leads?

I think people are just drawn to the characters because they're free and silly and fun to watch. But we couldn't behave like that if we didn't have Will and Grace to balance it out.

Is the bitchyness written into your character, or do you supply it yourself?

A bit of both, I'd say. I grew up in an irish Catholic family with five kids and a single parent, my mum, and so we got by on sarcasm. Very dark sarcasm at times. The writers picked up on that when the show started and incroporated a lot of that into my character. You know, lines like 'Unlike your thighs, that argument does not retain water.'

But Jack doesn't seem to observe any no-go areas with his rudeness. Do you?

Oh sure. You have to. Once when I was 16 and being a smart-arse, I made some sarcastic comment to my piano-teacher's husband, and he just turned round and said 'You know what, there's a time to be funny and there's a time not to be funny. And now is not the time'. That's always stuck with me. Made me grow up a little. I mean I wouldn't want to stop the wisecracking that I've always done, but it sometimes gets on people's nerves and I try to control that.

Was there a specific point where you realised the show had become a fully-fledged success?

I'll let you know when this series is over. It still hasn't sunk in.

Oh come on, you were given a 50K car by the studio!

I know, but in a way I'm kind of waiting for it to be taken away from me because you get so accustomed to that other way of life. You know, before you got the break. You never lose sight of what it took to get you here. So I'm very grateful for what I have. There are thousands of actors who could be doing what we're doing - we just got a lucky break. And there are plenty of actors who I could name - but I wont - who forget that and they get swept up in the hype of it all.

But you're certainly on the public radar now, and in over 100 countries as well.

That's incredible isn't it? Matt Damon said to me about a year ago, 'You probably can't even go out of the house these days', and I said 'What do you mean? Look who's talking!' And he said 'Yes, but you're seen by so many people every week.' And he had a point. When a movie opens with 15 million dollars, that's about a million people who've seen it. Whereas every single week 20 million people are watching the show.

See? You're name-checking Matt Damon in an interview already…

[laughs] Cool, isn't it! Oh I have another one as well! Matt Perry said to me 'If you want to go visit other countries, go now.' And that's true. There aren't many places in the world where the show doesn't get seen these days.

Do the gay community let you know how the show is being received?

Always. And we've had nothing but positive feedback from the gay community. Overwhelmingly positive. We're constantly working to make sure we're servicing the gay community in a good way, in the right way. Jack and Will were created to show two different types of gay man. I personally know a lot of flamboyantly gay men: I don't think Jack goes quite to that level, but I certainly play him towards it at times. I think he's more eccentric than flamboyant. There are gay men who take on the characteristics of women almost, and I don't think Jack does that.

Jack finds out he's a father in the next series - what was your reaction to that when they told you?

I loved loved loved that idea. Some of the critics didn't like it at all, but once they saw it happen onscreen they retracted the comments. I love it. I was certainly shocked when they told me, and my mind just went off into a million different places.

How important is the gay thing so far into the series?

Oh I think we've moved beyond that now. The initial thing was all about bringing gay characters into peoples homes at a time when they wouldn't perhaps feel comfortable with the idea. But we've conquered that ten times over. Almost without people knowing it. We're educating people without educating them, I suppose. And credit to the writers for that - it's really quite a feat.

Megan Mullaly/Karen

Karen must be based on someone in real life. And we'd really like names here…

[laughs] I'm sorry to disappoint, but Karen's not based on anyone real. Usually when I start with a character, I go for the voice first. Karen's voice is irritating, but it's also funny - it seems sort of inappropriate to someone as wealthy as her. I didn't overdo it in the pilot because I thought they wouldn't like it.

It seems they did.

Well yes! In the first season I was only ever in a couple of scenes each episode. Now I get to do more scenes, but the writing is pretty priceless on the show, and all of us get our fair share of good lines.

If you were to meet Karen in real-life, how would the two of you get on?

You know, I wonder if Karen would even talk to me. I don't think she'd give me the time of day, because I don't have the right kind of social connections. I would be very hard-pressed to say anything as mean as the things Karen comes out with. I do call people 'honey' a lot though.

She's also as politically-incorrect as a character could ever dream of being. That has to be fun to play.

Oh it is. I mean, you can't beat Karen, simply because she doesn't care. She just doesn't give a shit, and that's a very powerful characteristic. Rosario is the only one who can give it back. And I like that - the maid is the only one who can beat her. There was an episode we did that some hispanic groups complained about, when Karen said something insulting to Rosario, and I just found that really strange. Rosario always tops me, so I didn't understand that - she's the one with the power in that relationship.

Watching you and Sean onstage, it's like a two-man improv troupe.

Sean and I have this really great rapport. It's weird, a little spooky - we just feel each other and are able to come up with things that haven't even been rehearsed. Some of our stuff is very spontaneous. And when the audience comes in, that's when things really start happening.

No disrespect, but you've been in the business a long time, and it's only now that you've come to the world's attention...

True. I was 39 when I got this job, but I'd been acting professionally since I was 20. Back then I was more vulnerable and would be on the verge of quitting the whole business from time to time, but I think the reason I stuck to my guns was, well, I just realised that the only thing anybody really has to offer is their uniqueness. The things that are original to you. Once I realised that I started getting more work, funnily enough.

Uniquely enough, you're one of the few openly-bisexual actors in Hollywood. Did you ever worry about the industry's reaction to your sexuality?

I didn't have any qualms about coming out, and funnily enough no one seems to have batted an eyelash. I think it's because I'm not a controversial figure - I'm not a leading lady, I'm not 25, I don't have a wild, clubhopping lifestyle. But I do believe that everyone is innately bisexual: whether they realise it on any kind of conscious level is another story, there's the rub.

• NBC
• Living TV